108 vs 110 lobe separation

music to your ears? It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. So, without wasting any moment, lets find out the answer. by SStrokerAce Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:36 pm, Post camshaft is a Cranecams F238. Compression willl be 9.75:1. A cam with 110 lobe center will pull approximately 14-18"of vacuum is borderline for that type of application. I have 108 for LSA and my headlights take awhile to go up when the car is idling. If that accessory still does not assist the cam in producing enough vacuum, then as a last resort you can use a vacuum pump. I also like the 106 lobe separation with the intake on 103. LSA CAM TEST-108 vs 112 vs 120 Richard Holdener 239K subscribers 168K views 2 years ago WESTECH PERFORMANCE GROUP FULL RESULTS-CHANGE ONLY LSA-LS CAM TEST. The tightest LSA (101) was worth 21.5 lb-ft of torque and a much broader powerbandat the cost of much lower idle vacuum, which would make it more temperamental in a street car. Adding an aftermarket cam to an otherwise stock engine can boost output by 40-60 hp (or more) with no other changes (except possibly a valvespring upgrade). This was science at work, and with data in tow, it was time to crunch the numbers and find out what was going on. As you tighten the centers ( 108 ) the same engine will make MORE power through the mide range and top end. This causes the engine's street manners and tuning to become fickle. I think you are asking a lot of a cam . The stock valvesprings supplied with the CNC LS3 heads were swapped out in favor of a set of dual springs from Brian Tooley Racing. A 232 deg duration cam with a 108 deg LCA will have the same valve overlap as a 236 deg cam with a 110 deg LCA and idle will probably be very similar. Getting back to the sound of an engine, its no secret that a raucous, lumpy idle is often preferred by street cruisers, regardless of the ill manners and inefficiency of such an engine setup. = Extremely Tight . The Idles increasing vacuum improves the idle quality and the engines overall performance. This process slows down the reaction rates of the air-fuel mixture, causing temperatures to drop and preventing the engine from overheating. Another difference between the two involves the power curve. by jobes Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:51 pm, Post For Example: A 110-degree lobe separation means that the peak opening points of the Intake and Exhaust lobes is 110 degrees apart. JavaScript is disabled. I'm surprized at these questions as well as some of the replies. " These issues can often be worked through by an advanced tuner, but always present a challenge and compromise in tuning strategy. 292S-112: 292/292 - 240/240 - .495/.495 - 112* - 3400-7200. I just bought a 86b Webcam with 112 lobe centers for my 2276. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is a wider LSA with almost no overlap. On a tight lobe separation, like 106-108 degrees, the engine will build torque quickly and reach its peak early. A tighter LSA is always going to have more overlap, which allows the exhaust and intake systemif they're tuned wellto work together.". The engine would idle a lot rougher and generate worse exhaust emissions largely because of unburned fuel.. In this segment, I am going to compare those two lobe separation angles based on a couple of mechanical factors. The higher the compression and the higher you try and rev it, the more it will like a wider lobe center. No, it is not even close to the ultimate performance grind most would have picked. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Only once the intake valve has closed can compression begin to build. The lobe separation angle is the angle between the two camshaft lobes that act on the valves. changing just the LSA on my cam wouldnt make a bit of difference on vacuum operated items E ericnova72 More for Less Racer Joined Jan 13, 2007 22,026 Posts If all the specs remained the same what will going from a 110 to a 112 lsa do to driving characteristics? With minimal overlap and a steady manifold vacuum signal, they work great with fuel-injection systems and are the norm on modern pushrod engines, such as the LS and Gen III hemi. "When the low-pressure wave in the exhaust reflects into the intake, the pressure delta actually helps pull air and fuel into the cylinder. Looking at 108vs. The 108 LSA offered the lowest idle vacuum of the three (down 4 inches). A cam with a 112 lobe center will pull approximately 16-20" of vacuum, which is good for power brakes. AquaTraction Vs SeaDek: Which One Is Better For you? If the exhaust valve closes too early it will trap some of the spent gases in the combustion chamber, and if it closes too late it will over-scavenge the chamber and take out too much of the charge, again creating an artificially lean condition. But it is a piece of good news for your engine. On larger displacement units 116 to 118 degrees of separation are common. These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. The engine has AFR heads, Crane rockers, a TCI balancer, a Scat Rotating assembly with Mahle pistons, an Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap intake, an MSD ignition, and an Aeromotive fuel system. hydraboost is the same as a vacuum brakebooster, only the booster is replaced by a unit that does the same but under hydraulic pressure. If that were the only consideration, the 101 cam is the clear winner. Mechanical aspects like maximum torque, narrower powerband, higher cranking compression rate, efficient compression rate, effective EGR effect, and lower oil consumption rate increase the car engines efficiency and make it energy efficient. Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine. by Kdub Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:05 pm, Post Idle quality was rough and the vacuum gauge showed only 9.8 in-Hg (inches of mercury). The idle quality was better with the 112-degree LSA but not as good as the wider 120-degree cam.The ultra-wide 120-degree LSA lost low-speed power and never recovered, but know that this wide LSA is often beneficial on positive displacement, supercharged applications. It has been tried in the VW business earlier, but then they gave it up because of problems with too high temperatures around the exhaust valve, causing them them to break. A forum community dedicated to Ford performance owners and enthusiasts. Every spec is a road map to what the valves are doing, the most common of which are lift, duration, and lobe-separation angle (LSA)the latter needing the most explanation. 114LSA +4 puts the intake centerline at 110 degrees before top dead center. General topics - 76 LA built, CA car with m20. The tighter the lobe separation angle, the peakier the power curve will be, confirms Bolander. Engine knocking generally occurs when the burning of the fuel by the engine is uneven. The exhaust has an opening even and a closing event. So, choose the perfect lobe separation angle for your engine, complying with the requirements of your needs. Aeromotive; 913.647.7300; AeromotiveInc.com, AFR Heads; 661.257.8124; AirFlowResearch.com, Federal Mogul/Felpro; 248.354.7700; FederalMogul.com, Mahle; 248.347.9700; Mahle-Aftermarket.com, Scat Enterprises; 310.370.5501 ScatEnterprises.com, SuperFlow Dynamometers and Flow Benches; 515.254.1654; SuperFlow.com. That is no accident. The same is true for intake valve closing. Methods: We evaluated 30 individuals with PD (62.47.2 years) and 22 age-matched healthy controls (61.06.4 years). Realize what the engine is going in, however, as you may not be able to use the wildest cam out there. A wide LSA reduces valve overlap, softens the idle and improves overall drivabilityespecially on the street where performance engines benefit from 112 to 114 LSA. However it is at the expense of a small amount of bottom end power and idle quality, due to the increased overlap. These favorable mechanical features depict the powerful acceleration capacity of the engine with higher oil and energy consumption rate, overheating problems, and other mechanical problems. It a 355. thanks in advance. 554"/577" lift. 110 LSA: However, if you look at the rate of cranking compression at 110 LSA, you will find a reduced compression rate from the standard cranking compression PSI level. To illustrate the differences offered by changes in the LSA, we had Crane cams grind us three cam profiles that shared the same lift and duration figures, but differed only in the LSA. Lobe separations gives lots of overlap and lobe centers just happens when the grinder decides how the peak of the lobe will arrive on a specific grind by their tooling. We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. by mrsmythe Tue May 13, 2003 5:45 am, Post Pick the cam with the valve timing events that fit the engine best, forget about LSA, it is only a result of the events. That was just a glimpse of the information you were looking for. With a 108 degree lobe center, a cam will have a rougher idle and produce less vacuum due to more overlap. The 108-degree cam (blue lines) outperformed the other two, but idle quality suffered. If a street car has smaller lift and duration numbers, they might run 112 or 114. A narrower lobe separation angle can provide less power but can also lead to less wear. After swimming through the entire article, I hope you are now well aware of the 102 vs 110 lobe separation angle. The lower the lobe seperation,, ie. That was all, and we have already reached the concluding point. We borrowed Westech Performance's shop mule, a 370ci small-block Chevy and its SuperFlow 902 engine dyno and spent a day running each cam back-to-back to gauge its effect on peak horsepower, peak torque, cranking compression, idle vacuum, and the powerband as a wholeall the variables that define an engine's character on the street and track. 04 Minor modifications to the factory windage tray were necessary to work with the new stroker assembly. Test 1 was easy. The 402-inch LS2/LS3 hybrid stroker started out with an LS2 aluminum block. . So, sit tight back and explore. Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! What Is the SBC Header Bolt Torque? pump gas, no additive's as well, runs good, i will put the highest octane in, which is 93.. Save Share. A forum community dedicated to hot rod owners and enthusiasts. My lift will be about .580" intake and exhaust, with about 230/236 duration with a 1.7 rocker ratio, utilizing a Jesel shaft rocker system. but less of it at the same time. I am trying to pick out a hydraulic roller cam for my 351W with AFR 185s. After spending 8 years in plant production engineering, Noah wanted to join Engine Addiction as a key member of all cars specific guides, reviews, repairs, suggestions, and more. Thanks for the replies, particularly that link Marc, very informative. Simply put, the lobe separation angle (LSA) is a measurement of how the intake and exhaust lobes are phased with each other. I have seen a dyno test where an engine using identical duration and lift made more peak power with a 112 LSA than a 110 LSA. At a lower LSA, the engine reaches the peak of the torque earlier than the standard time but generates a lower RPM.On the contrary, at a higher LSA, the engine reaches the peak torque at a higher resistance level and generates a bulk number of RPM. A few other major and, Read More Heres What Causes Your Car to Bog Down When AcceleratingContinue, Your email address will not be published. To overcome this inherent problem in wide LSA camshafts, you simply need a higher-flowing intake port. Lower cylinder pressure is advantageous for your engine. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Again, these are general bits of conventional wisdom. Increased overlap improves upper RPM power. 110* LSA - lobe separation angle (lobe displacement angle) The +2* means your intake lobe centerline is advanced to obtain a 108* ICL - intake centerline and a 112* ECL - exhaust centerline. Once more the engine came apart to install the third test cam, a 107 LSA. For large port heads like the CNC 044's which can use the extra lift 1.4's make a noticable difference. by Paul H Tue May 13, 2003 1:24 pm, Post So, now you, Read More Chevy Transmission Wont Shift Into 3rd: Finding the Main CulpritContinue, While changing the oil on your boats lower unit, you may need to change the drain plug, too. The takeaway from this test is camshaft LSA is a double-edged sword. Re: Lobe separations on 383-406 cids.104-106-108-110. I know a little about cams. If identical and for a given displacement the 110 will give more power. It depends on the combination of engine size, head flow and head flow balance, as well as a big one, exhaust flow capabilities. That notion is completely false. The ported heads were capable of supporting over 700 hp, so we knew they would not be restrictive on our stroker. 03 The 4.000-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods were combined with a set of forged asymmetrical pistons from JE. Selecting a camshaft for a given engines purpose usually involves a compromise between low- or high-end power options, and the lobe separation angle (LSA) is one of those factors where engine builders have to make a choice between those priorities. A cam in the 110112 LSA range provides the necessary idle lobe to appease gearhead ears with acceptable manifold vacuum to run vacuum-operated accessories. ditto with the above. We use 86b webcams with 1.25 rockers frequently in stroker motors.It's a nice way of getting close to .500" for hot street motors with average heads. The absence of engine knocking ensures that your car engine is reasonably combusting the fuel. A mobile functional near-infrared spectroscopy (fNIRS) was used to record cerebral oxygenation signals in the left prefrontal cortex (LPFC), right prefrontal cortex (RPFC), left parietal lobe (LPL), and right parietal lobe (RPL) and analyze the EC of the cerebral cortex. Moreover, a user from the Chevelle forum said. Higher overlapping lets less oil fall through the oil inlet. You get a better idle, vacuum, and response from a 112o-114o lobe. If you changed the lobe separation of a street engine from 112 degrees to 106 and didnt do anything else, adds Kaase. JavaScript is disabled. While lift and duration are most often discussed when talk turns to cam timing, there is a third variable that has a decided effect on both power and personality. This cam also offered the highest torque output at 4,000 rpm with 522 lb-ft. Based on the peak numbers alone you might be tempted to grab the one with the tightest (108-degree) LSA, but there is more to a cam test than power. LSA is a result of valve timing events. A 112-114 degree lobe center will have a better idle and produce more vacuum with less overlap. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. Next up was the 112-degree cam, which actually lost out in peak power slightly to the 120-degree cam, but offered considerably more torque. Check out the Comp Cams catalog, even the biggest hydraulic rollers use 110. To further minimize any dyno variations, the engine's oil and water temperatures were kept the same for each pull. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. 106 LSA: You can see an increasing EGR effect at 106 LSA. So, which is better? = Moderately Wide 110-108 Deg. But, after comparing these two LSA based on a few mechanical aspects, such as maximum Torque, RPM, powerband, oil consumption, and many more, you will find the 106 LSA with better performance output. ( 2 ) Estimated Ship Date: Feb 23, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship. Aluminum flywheel & pullies. 106 LSA: There is an increasing chance of engine knock at the 106 lobe separation angle. The taller lobe seperation will have a longer powerband but will have to rev higher to make the power than the lower lobe seperation! Howards Cam Vs Comp Cam: Which Is The Best Option For You? On engines equipped with independent intake and exhaust cams, the LSA is adjustable. Builds More High-RPM Power Increase Piston-Intake Valve Clearance Decrease Piston-Exhaust Valve Clearance EFFECTS OF CHANGING LOBE SEPERATION ANGLE (LSA) Tighten (smaller LSA number) Moves Torque to Lower RPM Increases Maximum Torque Narrow Power band Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure Increase Chance of Engine Knock Increase Cranking Compression Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine. If the intake valve opens too early, it will push the new charge into the intake manifold. A cam with a 112lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110lobe center. Another related thought to consider when selecting a cam is inches of vacuum for your engine application when deciding upon a Lobe Center. We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. JavaScript is disabled. 110 LSA: You will find the complete opposite scenario here. It produces peak torque earliercoming on quicker and strongerbut also it falls off quicker too. And better gas mileage. This form of short-term memory is supported by the prefrontal cortex (PFC) and is believed to rely on the ability of selectively tuned pyramidal neuron networks to persist in firing even after a to-be-remembered stimulus is removed from the environment. - Sheryl Crow. It will sound lovely I'm sure. by trmnatr Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:45 pm, Post Come join the discussion about popular models such as the Mustang, Galaxie, Falcon, Fairlane, Torino, Shelby and many more! Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! 15,215. ohio. The introduction of Lunati'snew Bootleggerhydraulic series - with its wicked 108-degree lobe-separation angle, fast opening profile and plenty of area under the lift curve - will serve only to fuel the flames on this heated bench-racing topic. i've heard of this being done something about the massive amounts of duration allowes gasses to disipate? On the surface, the camshaft's job is simpleopen and close the valvesbut beyond that topical description, it's one of the most mysterious and misunderstood engine components. 06 The ported heads featured a 2.165/1.590-inch valve combo. The standard bore block was then stuffed with a 4340 forged steel 4.0-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods, along with a set of flat-top, forged JE pistons. Before we all start suffering from separation anxiety, we need to understand what lobe separation angle actually is and then how it affects your engine. But remember, although a broader powerband has a couple of acceleration advantages, it also comes with a few drawbacks. That means your engine can produce more power with a minimum amount of fuel combustion. In a blower motor when the valve timing events are where they need to be the lobe sep will usually wind up in the 114-115 range on most Combos. But, at 106 LSA, the cranking compression may increase above the standard PSI level. It is possible to advance and retard the timing events, but the distance between the centerline of the lobes will remain constant. L'auteur prsente une nouvelle contribution de floristique nord-africaine consacre la flore du massif du Rif et des rgions du nord du Maroc, dans le cadre gographique prdfini par le Catalogue des Plantes vasculaires du Nord du Maroc de Valds et al. They also reduce stress on the outdrive. Pretty much standard for an RV type cam. I don't think your duration figures are too outlandish and with the tight LCA and high lift, it should make some big torque. Do you like to go fast? I think the compression ratio has something to do with LSA too. Anybody here run a 108 LSA? You can modify the lobe center a little bit but not enough to change the actual overlap of the grind. 106 LSA: At this LSA, the car machine has to confront the reduction of idle vacuum rate quite often. Despite no changes in lift or duration, this cam sounded much more aggressive than the other two with wider LSAs. Cam swaps are all the rage and for good reason. However, finding them might be challenging if you dont have any prior knowledge. To establish the position of each lobe, the traditional reference point is where the lobes reach max lift. The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes, says Eric Bolander of Erson Cams. According to the Motortrend, LSA (Lobe Separation Angle) is a wonderful approximation of the operation of the engine because it takes into account the relative time of the intake-valve events (intake opening, intake closing) and the exhaust-valve events (exhaust opening, exhaust closing) concerning each other.Above mentioned sequential activities allow LSA to be an accurate representation of the operation of the engine. But i would nt go any wider than 110. Widening their separation angle helps increase upper rpm power output. Really wide lobe separation angles are used in boosted applications. What Are The Wastegate Stuck Open Symptoms? But this is not the only reason. Do you know what the best lobe separation angle for your car engine is? The second cam would have a rougher idle, produce more torque and would rev quicker. A wide lobe seperation is not always better than a narrow one, or vise versa. I just bought a 86b Webcam and Im using 1.5's. I'd also go to a 110-112 lobe separation angle. This overlapping has a direct influence on the oil consumption rate of the engine. Bad idea in my view. The balance of midrange torque and top-end horsepower lends this LSA range to the majority of street/strip engines. However, the plentiful exhaust overlap (31 degrees) meant there was lots of exhaust dilution at low engine speed and high vacuum. It is the DESIGNED events that yield CENTERLINE. The wider lobe separation angle closes the intake valve later and reduces cylinder pressure, so that is where it's detonation resistance comes from. I think that cam had 110 lobe sep. Im loking at a summit cam with close to the same lift and duration #s but 114 lobe sep. Seeking 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD Black Exit Tubing for Radiator Overflow Reservoir. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. Split duration/lift only helps when your intake/exhaust ratio is low on the exhaust side. . Due to the tightness and frequent overlapping of the intake and exhaust valves, the engine cant generate the high RPM as it is supposed to. All rights reserved. Most street cams are ground 4 degrees advanced which boosts bottom end, throttle response, vacume, mpg driveability etc. The 30-30 Duntov is on the high end of the duration recommendation. to use this representational knowledge to guide current and future action. by 3V Performance Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:38 pm, Post

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