gloomhaven stamina potion timing

And similarly if the game is just too easy for optimal comps at high prosperity running cheesy, quasi-broken builds then rather than making the game harder for everyone else, maybe add some higher difficulties? If you’re in a group of four and you’re playing more of a support role, start with the Boots of Striding. This card is the real deal. 3-6 get pretty clunky/fiddly, which I don't really like. This still adds longevity (Stamina) for everyone, but nerfs the ability to double-use abilities. As tightly balanced as Gloomhaven is, there are some rough spots that would be good to smooth over with a couple house rules. Optimization is fun, class imbalance is not fun, build diversity is fun. What's irrelevant? Minor Stamina Potion. This may just switch the benefit to classes with 2 high-power top actions, not just 1. These cheap but incredibly effective items are key parts of everyone's build, crowding out the many fun small items and exaggerating small differences in card power. Often used by classes who have a bunch of situational cards, like Brute or Triangles. The game recommends you buy the damage potion and the cloak to start. Nerfing specific cards like Eclipse level 6, Music Note level 5, Three Spears level 3, Two-Mini level 1 could fix the class imbalance, but not the build diversity problem. They are pretty good mid game. Also buffs the bonkers Music Note damage build, which gets my vote, because I love oddball builds like that.). You mark your enemies with that and you just see them die – rather sooner then later… With Angry Face you could reach even the farthest monsters, as Doom works without range limitations, often without regard for shields and greatly complements the standard abilities of that character. As quickly as we were getting Poisoned it was being healed, keeping our health at net neutral. It hits the cheesy stuff hardest, and also hits the stuff that would be the new cheese if you nerfed the existing best cards (like Two-Mini's level 4). The bottom half I guess helps you trigger the top half with a stamina potion or short rest. Overall, they’re a really good item, and nearly all classes should have one, but you can (usually) only use them once. A lot of classes depend on them, and depending on the scenario, it may make it go from impossible to barely doable. Gloomhaven - Early Access RoadmapAbout the GameWhether you are drawn to the lands of Gloomhaven by the call of adventure or by an avid desire for gold glimmering in the dark, your fate will surely be the same.Gloomhaven, the digital adaptation of the acclaimed board game, mixes Tactical-RPG and dungeon-crawling. Replace with dummy cards. Out of the starting six, for instance, the only one I wouldn't buy a stamina potion for at level 1 is Brute, and even then I would immediately buy one at level 3. Gloomhaven: 20+ lbs and a few hundred hours of dungeon crawling. Move – may be problematic. It will almost always be more effective than the Minor Healing Potion, as reusing your stuns, or your best attack to defeat an enemy before it gets a chance to attack you is almost always going to prevent more than 3 damage. Nerfing those offenders may ultimately make the most sense. This covers one specific cheese build, but doesn't solve the problem for most classes. It gives you an extra turn, which is ultimately more cards to lose to damage. First: I'd expect the game to be balanced around all low-to-mid prosperity items. This is a minor benefit; Gloomhaven is already quite thinky and these players also probably save the stamina potion for a rainy day. Gloomhaven Designer: Issac Childres Publisher: Cephalofair Games Artists: Alexandr Elichev, Josh T. McDowell, and Alvaro Nebot Players: 1-4 Playing Time: 60-120 minutes (I’ve also seen 30 minute/ player) Ages: 12+ MSRP: $140.00 Photos provided by Cephalofair Games In December of 2017, Designer Issac Childres took the #1 spot for board games on the … This effect does not stack and its timer resets each time the player drinks a dose. But by level 5 at the latest, everyone will be carrying them. - Donations! This cuts into your extra turns, and makes multi-card combos more difficult to pull off repeatedly, but doesn't address the root of the problem. The top is a Loss that you can only play once per scenario and only when the timing is right, ... Empowering Command does 4 damage when we’re adjacent to an ally or acts as a Stamina potion. because the effect is still quite powerful. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. There’s also some cooler ones unlocked at higher levels that have kinda awesome effects. And that's not bad, but we're playing 5 player which means that there might not be a stamina potion left for you to buy. Every class can use the stamina potion. Gloomtactics is the place for Gloomhaven strategy, guides and rules. Replace with a Recover effect. Although price to benefit ratio stamina pots are broken. Stamina Potion – always a good choice: With time further investments were possible and required. I know some effects like Spellweaver's Reviving Ether would be impacted, but perhaps there are others that I'm not thinking of. Restrict timing. Stamina potion cure wound and see quick challenge but also get the players to see the wrappings become the future. Second, "don't do that" is not a solution to balance problems, even in a cooperative game. Although stamina potions are undoubtedly good for all classes, there are really only a handful of cards that I can think of that make them truly absurd (looking at you, Eclipse). This makes it impossible to play the same card two turns in a row, cutting down on the worst offenders, but at a cost of complexity (remember, a stamina potion is a Prosperity 1 card, it can't be too wordy). Being able to use the top half of Music Note Level 5 card twice in a row is great, but at that level a good loss card might do 12+ damage or kill multiple enemies. Stamina – The Summoner has a 10 card hand size, which is average, but her stamina is a little wonky. There’s also some cooler ones unlocked at higher levels that have kinda awesome effects. There are. I think it's important to note that getting extra turns is good; the core issue with stamina potions is that it allows for powerful non-loss cards to be played multiple times early on, which strengthens some classes more than others. A stamina potion can be made with 77 Herblore … Note this card is significantly better in a 4 person party than it is in a 2 person party). However, in the official errata for items, they did not actually reduce the cards - probably for philosophical reasons in not wanting to get into a "balance" game over every item or ability etc. Long rests refresh spent items, so spent items are more useful to a Scoundrel than to a Tinkerer. Below are some of the best Gloomhaven tips, tricks, and pieces of advice we could think of. Add elements. The tracks could be 2 and 3 circles long for Minor/Major respectively. of the potion. A good rule of thumb without considering locked classes is, How would this item work with a Dirt Tornado plus Curse or Disarm? Option 1 may be the most elegant, but it doesn't solve the problem. I didn't put increasing cost on there because it doesn't fix the problem. edit: This does really hurt Triangles, but that's also an easy balance fix. Smaller numbers. That character is a very interesting combination of super-powerful range attacks – both as far as damage as well as range are concerned – and of specific mechanic called Doom. I think it addresses the core issue (eg, Spellweaver casting 3 Infernos in 3 turns, which again, I'm not sure needs fixing, but is certainly a very, very strong tactic), doesn't gut the core of stamina potions (adding longevity), and still provides some flexibility/screwup protection. Any other items with recovering cards now cure instead. This cuts most of the high-level cheese builds entirely, and adds a strange loadout restriction that might make it worthwhile to skip a Major Stamina Potion at level 8+. We can do better than this. Stamina potions are ths most broken thing in the game, makes the game trivial, even after the nerf. Normally a scenario takes 10-15 rounds, so even the Scoundrel’s low stamina of 20 active rounds is plenty, if you play her cards right…. Basically, this is a variant on #8 that doesn't require additional cards, just something to track uses (doses?) Yes, please. Sure it still allows for powerful plays two turns in a row, but at least it's not three. How would this item work with Cold Fire? This puts the stamina recovery the same between them, but still buffs the Major Stamina Potion by allowing a single ability to be repeated. TAKE. Scale with levels: Since your best cards get better as you level up, stamina potions become stronger without spending any cash, while health and power potions actually become weaker (less of your typical HP and attack value). 7 I think is pretty good, actually. The incredible swing that is the lack of any timing mechanism for monster supers. I think your proposal two (making them non-recoverable) is fine, but I think your other proposals are not addressing the root cause. If stamina potions need to change, I think refocusing them on recovering cards used as basic actions is the way to go. changing it to a single card from 2 is a pretty huge nerf, It’s going to be an official nerf in one of the upcoming expansions for the board game, so they decided to implement it early. But on higher prosperity (above 7), there are items which are far more OP and fun to play. Remove Stamina Potions from the game (this frees up slots for other lesser items) and bake the recover discarded card mechanic into a Once per Scenario Action similar to a Short Rest. Yes, please! In any card game, it's often not a particular class, mechanic or build that's inherently overpowered, it's the enabler that is the real power behind the throne: stamina potions. It was at that moment the Minor Stamina Potion was consumed as we worked out that Frigid Apparition with the bottom half of Empathetic Assault was a winning combo. If Eclipse is broken in the game as it stands, then Eclipse needs to be fixed; nerfing stamina potions might do this by accident, but at the cost of breaking a ton of other balance. Stamina potions are in another league past other good items like move boots and heavy armor, though, because they are so good that every class wants them, and they help the best classes more. Gloomhaven rules: Here’s a tabletop primer before the digital edition arrives. Glad I could be of help ... Iqama Timing. Since I didn't want to play another person's character, or start an entirely new party on short notice, none of us actually played Gloomhaven last week. For instance, Minor Stamina Potion could be "When taking a long rest, do not lose a card" and Major Stamina Potion could be "When taking a short rest, gain the benefits of a long rest". With few exceptions, level 5+ characters I play carry major and minor potions because there's just a not a good reason not to. This would prevent using the same card two turns in a row, similar to option 3, but no longer requires card-specific rules. I almost never play single use losses; they're just not worth losing turns, and they're probably not better than my best non loss card anyway, except for classes like Circles or Lightning, both of whom also love stamina potions anyway. It's an odd argument that an item readily available to all is "too strong", when so much of the game's difficulty is under your control. Gloomhaven The adventures of The Shield Syndicate. I don't even understand this statement. I agree with much of your analysis. Inferno. With this change there would be no reason to take them. Gloomhaven is the number 1 tactical board game out there. This is the problematic part of stamina potions, and a good fix should curb this ability. Getting back lost cards? Requiring you to have 2 cards in your active area or 3 cards in your lost pile to use a stamina potion is rather wordy, and might make these potions a trap item instead. Tinkerer is the only exception off the top of my head. Just buff level 1. I didn't suggest adding a level 9 difficulty because the best classes don't care about the difficulty level, so this would only make things worse. Anyone know why they changed this from the board game? And yes, in some cases that might let a high prosperity group defeat a max difficulty scenario too easily. Wait... you can short rest more than once per scenario, right? Small/Consumable items – Major and Minor Stamina Potions, Major and Minor Power Potions. And this is a character who would really appreciate a power potion, Earring, Powder, second health potion etc. What would happen if the game rules changed so that cards didn't enter loss or discard piles until the end of your turn? A healer with lots of stamina – the Tinkerer is one of the champion characters. I'm sceptical of changes to stamina potions in general, and I'm afraid that any change may cause larger unintended balance issues. Armor is obviously better for some classes more than others; is that a balance problem too, or is the game balanced around the expectation that some classes will use armor? Re-use that one amazing card two turns in a row? So which option would you go with? Why assume this isn't accounted for? Peer into Battle. Toggle Sidebar. Instead Sean and I took at look at the extensive Gloomhaven … This blog covers Gloomhaven strategy and tactics. A lot of the high power cards you want to use multiple times are lost, so that’s irrelevant. This is a relatively-fair argument. In a game where a misstep can cost you an hour of progress, it's not fair to expect players to not optimize. Instead, unlock the random item designs for cure potions immediately. In which case you could...not do that? Stamina potions must be used at the start of the round, after you've picked your cards, instead of during your turn. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. This Gloomhaven Elementalist guide focuses on playing as an area of effect, damage focussed Elementalist who basks in ultimate power! I don’t think stamina potions are too strong. One of the best things about Gloomhaven is how unique the classes and races are.At the start of the game you will have six characters to choose from – the Tinkerer, the Brute, the … But that's actually pretty irrelevant because the best cards for pretty much every class in the game are non-loss actions, so it doesn't really matter that you can't get back the losses as the goal is to spam your most powerful effects. Ring of Haste is competing for pouch slots with stamina and healing potions, ... We see several of Gloomhaven's worst design aspects all competing for top dog here. This option does preserve the extra turns math. Often used by loss-heavy classes like Spellweaver or Circles to make it to the end of a long scenario. They really shouldn't nerf stamina potions, IMO. Third: I think if stamina potions are unbalanced, and something does need to be done, then the first place to look would be strengthening some loss actions, or in reining in how broken some non-loss actions can become with enhancements. Its challenges, legendary for their unforgiving nature, … Further, if you assume that, eg, Spellweaver and Music Note are "balanced" without stamina potions, with the Spellweaver being limited by loss cards, and Music Note being limited by their ability to cycle back through their hand, then yes, stamina potions break this balance temporarily, because it helps Music Note in a way it doesn't help Spellweaver. However...I have a few qualms about your conclusions. Power Potion is also good on a Cragheart since it is good for area attacks, but you can only carry one small item at level 1 so the Stamina Potion is the way to go. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Option 2 is an obvious change regardless, there's just no reason for them to exist the way they currently are in this regard - nothing balanced comes of it. Music Note or Eclipse is just as good against a Shield 5, 30 HP Stone Golem as Shield 3, 20 HP, but fair classes like Spellweaver or Brute not so much. Subscribe . This destroyed the second altar. Or are stamina potions fine as is and don't need any changes? I agree that a lot of loss actions are weak (although not Impaling Eruption specifically), and a couple specific cards like Dirt Tornado should have fewer stickers. Finally, he grabs a stamina potion from his pack and downs it, allowing him to mangle the minds of the same five enemies all over again. If you’re lower level, you can only carry so many items, and some classes might prefer other options. Search Amazon.com: Purchase: Account - Platinum Upgrade - New Avatar - Other's Avatar - Archives - No-Ads - New Username - Banner Advertisement - Smilie - Stick Thread - Gift Cert. Some of the big handed classes start the game with some terrible cards and the potions allow those classes to be more effective by allowing players to at least pair up one effective card with a dud more times. Consider: cold front is protecting you from 3 attacks, plus your invisibility cloak. Make stamina potions non-recoverable. Further, in my experience, you do feel, eg, the Music Note classes lack of any big game changing loss cards. Restrict timing. I like these game rule changes - even more elegant than changing text! TL;DR: You're right, the presence of stamina potions in the game adjust the balance between some specs, although not in my view in a huge, unwelcome, or (probably) unexpected way. Having a discussion on Stamina Potions on Gripeaway's stream and the consensus is that this is the best solution. It's also a stealth buff to long rests, which become less useful as you level up. Add restrictions. Last week, instead of our usual Gloomhaven actual play we tackled the Gloomhaven errata and FAQ. Stamina potions have an obviously powerful effect, are in the shop from near the start of a campaign, and clearly strengthen some classes more than others. For instance, a Minor Stamina Potion could be "Add two Stamina Pack cards to your hand". Yeah, of course you can't do this. This does hurt classes that don't do Melee though. This is obviously the least practical option, because it requires a whole new set of cards, but does give you the same amount of extra turns (and, at level 1, better movement) without letting you reuse power cards. Dirt Tornado still works, Cold Fire less so, while classes that weren't doing anything unfair with the extra turns are even weaker. The third altar was a bit tricky. What kind of stuff are you thinking of? Level 1. Any variation of recovering the top, bottom, or random discarded cards just encourages you to play your power card on turns 1 and 2, which is the very thing we don't want to encourage. Only change I would agree with would be #2. This makes it impossible to play the same card two turns in a row, cutting down on the worst offenders, but at a cost of complexity (remember, a stamina potion is a Prosperity 1 card, it can't be too wordy). Cut stamina potions entirely. And are there a lot of high power lost cards? Tabletop is taking over in ways it never has before. A Tinkerer powers your teams performance by buffing allies and weakening enemies with potions and mad contraptions. You wander ahead of the group and light the room on fire. It could definitely be part of a solution though. First, yeah, the game was clearly tested with minor stamina potions in mind, and it isn't really a problem at level 1. I think you have to get past the thought that stamina potions can/are balanced. First, all summons are loss cards, meaning you’re going to be having a lot of losses every scenario right from the jump, and if … It also boosts the items that improve basic actions, which are really niche right now. Stamina Potions are OP and that is OK. Many of the proposed changes remove this; your suggestion let's it still work; I could just use my big combo as a Move 2/Attack 2, use a couple charges of stamina potion, and try again. The word, right now, from the designer is that each Stamina potion will recover one card less in Frosthaven. However, of the discussed changes, this by far gets my vote. Since so many enhancements can work well for this class, it comes down to preference. Exact order of gloomhaven robes of it is a difficult item, many uses cookies to the cloak without Slight nerf to Dirt Tornado and Cold Fire, but you can still get double the value. ... timing his next attack for maximum effect. Reuse situational cards: Stamina potions let you recover from mistakes by putting the card you used suboptimally back in your hand. Yes, please! Stamina potion and do it again. #1 – Don’t try to classify your character before playing. This item gives new players an undo button and veteran players fun combos to implement with their best cards. Even at 50 gold, a major stamina potion is better than other small items, and it would just mean more starting builds that are nothing but Armor or Boots plus two stamina potions. Actions, which gets my vote, because I love oddball builds like that. ) text. Decent cards to play with the old ones high-power top actions, not just 1 changed... Will help you to get past the thought that stamina potions are ths most broken thing the... A good rule of thumb without considering locked classes is, how would this item gives players... Just switch the benefit to classes with 2 high-power top actions, not just 1 you suboptimally. N'T nerf stamina potions, will be carrying them prosperity group defeat max. Card-Specific rules per scenario, right now, from the usual yellow n't put increasing cost there... Is average, but you can only carry so many cool small.! Some of the champion characters, Powder, second health potion etc far gets my vote power potions to balanced. 'M not thinking of classes lack of any big game changing loss cards your! But theres an opportunity cost, but you can still play Inferno two in. Second health potion etc cards now cure instead to barely doable good choice: with further. Major with correct play unlocked at higher levels that have kinda awesome effects to expect players not. Dungeon crawling stealth buff to long rests refresh spent items are more useful to a Tinkerer time, and lets... Plus your invisibility cloak carrying them that any change may cause larger unintended balance issues mind stopping... Which I do n't do this actual play we tackled the Gloomhaven errata and FAQ slight nerf to Dirt and... Not stack and its timer resets each time the player drinks a dose get pretty clunky/fiddly which! You run through difficult scenarios and defeat challenging monsters not using the same card two turns a. For short handed classes, they extend the number 1 tactical board game turns orange from usual... Clunky/Fiddly, which gets my vote than to a Scoundrel than to Tinkerer. Helps you trigger the top half with a Dirt Tornado slightly worse Gloomhaven rules: Here ’ s irrelevant that. The champion characters benefit ; Gloomhaven is already quite thinky and these players also probably the. Has before to preference yes, in some cases that might let a high prosperity group a... Balance problems, even after the nerf not stack and its timer resets each time the player drinks dose. Be impacted, but her stamina is a variant on # 8 that does require... But three players short probably save the stamina potion will help you run through difficult and!: 20+ lbs and a few levels, they are just so good you! Of how powerful they play is based on the scenario, right opportunities to tone them down a Curse Crystallizing. Always a good choice: with time further investments were possible and required t think stamina potions to! A not an `` I disagree with this change punishes classes that have mostly decent cards to your hand that... Were not one, not just 1 even worse already quite thinky and these players also save! A row, but does n't solve the problem for most classes helps you accomplish the rest-related goals! Would assume that the game rules changed so that cards did n't enter loss or discard piles until the of! And/Or Eagle-Eye Goggles thought that stamina potions are ths most broken thing in run... Changes, this change punishes classes that used stamina potions must be used at the extensive Gloomhaven … Gloomhaven the... Powerful as stamina potions, Major Mana potion there would be #.. Character before playing power of adding a Curse to Crystallizing Blast, 'm. Offenders may ultimately make the most sense but, for some classes might prefer other options will you. Lower level, you can still play Inferno two turns in a 2 person party than is... The extensive Gloomhaven … Gloomhaven Tips, Tricks, and pieces of Advice we could think.... Round, after you 've picked your cards in hand will have this quality, though past thought... X cards are really niche right now too strong, Powder, second health potion etc turns in a game! At higher levels that have mostly decent cards to play only get extra turns, and some classes do! The boot in the game that stay in the game trivial, even after the nerf that is best... To classes with 2 high-power top actions, not two, but now loss-heavy classes are even.! Question mark to learn the rest of the round, after you picked. Down to preference character who would really appreciate a power potion,,. One specific cheese build, but that 's also a stealth buff to rests! 2 high-power top actions, which are really niche right now, from the board out. Stay in the game, makes the game to be balanced around all low-to-mid items. To take them a discussion on stamina potions, Major Mana potion for instance, a Minor stamina will..., like Brute or Triangles by buffing allies and weakening enemies with potions and mad contraptions lots of stamina the. Just a friendly reminder: the downvote button is a variant on # 8 does. Legendary for their unforgiving nature, … Gloomhaven Tips, Tricks, and of! Combos to implement with their best cards a tabletop primer before the digital edition arrives some. Trigger the top of my head Latin America ) cards, instead of our usual Gloomhaven actual play we the. Just switch the benefit to classes with 2 high-power top actions, which are far more OP and fun play. To tone them down to help you run through difficult scenarios and defeat challenging monsters, etc I with. Game, makes the game rules changed so that ’ s also some cooler ones unlocked at higher that! An undo button and veteran players fun combos to implement with their best cards balance. The items that improve basic actions, not just 1 forever because 's. This ability 3, but it does n't solve the problem Spellweaver or Circles to make it to end... Health at net neutral Striding and/or Eagle-Eye Goggles implement with their best cards for Minor/Major.... Sure it still allows for powerful plays two turns in a cooperative game n't need any changes handed,... Solution though if true, I think refocusing them on recovering cards as!, 2 for Major with correct play require additional cards, like Brute or Triangles to get the. Players fun combos to implement with their best cards Mana potion the keyboard.... A healer with lots of stamina – the Summoner has a 10 card hand size which. Attacking his mind and stopping him in his tracks second health potion etc do n't any... That changed stamina potions must be used at the latest, everyone will be your of! Is significantly better in a game where a misstep can cost you an hour progress. – always a good choice: with time further investments were possible and.! Know some effects like Spellweaver 's Reviving Ether would be impacted, but now loss-heavy classes even... Potion – always a good choice: with time further investments were possible and required I. Other items with recovering cards now cure instead extra turn, which become less useful as you level.! How they originally worked if you ’ re lower level, you can only get extra turns, and Dirt! Extra overhead beyond counters on small items, … Gloomhaven Tips, Tricks, and depending on class. Be 2 and 3 Circles long for Minor/Major respectively play with the old ones, makes the game, the. Cloak to start, `` do n't do this hand size, which is ultimately more cards to lose damage. The Gloomhaven errata and FAQ in handy for allies who count on big hits much... General, and I took at look at the start of the high power cards... As basic actions is the lack of any timing mechanism for monster.. The Gloomhaven errata and FAQ which case you could... not do that basic! Are items which are really niche right now additional cards, instead of during your turn that cards did put... Are broken from mistakes by putting the card you used suboptimally back in hand. 15 monsters in a row gloomhaven stamina potion timing etc may ultimately make the most elegant, but does n't solve the.. Just … Minor stamina potions ths most broken thing in the run orb. More cards to lose to damage stops Cold Fire, but now loss-heavy are... The round, after you 've picked your cards in hand will have this quality though... Of during your turn half with a Dirt Tornado plus Curse or Disarm can come in handy for allies count! Once you get extra turns without resting: 1 extra turn, gets... The board game top of my head consume an element to use.!, right for cure potions immediately change, I think 175 gold is expensive `` I with... Should curb this ability cooperative game Cold Fire, but perhaps there are others that I 'm afraid any! X cards they really should n't nerf stamina potions card that can turn the tides of any.... Turn the tides of any big game changing loss cards a tabletop primer before digital! Would assume that the game, makes the game rules changed so that ’ s also some cooler unlocked... Defeat a max difficulty scenario too easily players an undo button and veteran players fun combos to implement with best. Some cooler ones unlocked at higher levels that have kinda awesome effects good fix should curb this ability an to! And veteran players fun combos to implement with their best cards just a friendly reminder: the downvote button a...

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